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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From the site service.citroen.com-

STOP AND START - WITH STOP AND START STARTER
STARTER MOTOR - STTD STARTER

So what is it? Is there a stater turning the flywheel, or does the alernator is dual purpose ie also starting the engine from cold and in start/stop phase?
Or is it both? I.e. The starter is starting the engine from cold and the alternator is starting the engine in eco mode?

By the way, looking at the gearbox i found no starter installed there...

I am bewildered.
 
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Primekart said:
From the site service.citroen.com- STOP AND START - WITH STOP AND START STARTER STARTER MOTOR - STTD STARTER
So what is it? Is there a stater turning the flywheel, or does the alernator is dual purpose ie also starting the engine from cold and in start/stop phase?
Or is it both? I.e. The starter is starting the engine from cold and the alternator is starting the engine in eco mode?
By the way, looking at the gearbox i found no starter installed there...I am bewildered.
See this link http://www.cactusforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=176 hopefully it will be helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Unfortunately it does not. I am looking for a definite answer - what is installed in my 110 HP Turbo engine? Anyone with Citroen technical knowledge?
 

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To get a definitive your only port of call at this time would be to contact Citroen with your VIN number and ask them.

It may be:

Vehicle Fitted with Stop Start = STOP AND START - WITH STOP AND START STARTER
Not fitted with Stop Start = STARTER MOTOR - STTD STARTER

TBH I cant say ive looked at the engine in that detail though...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well this is exactly the cause of my bewilderment. BOTH "starters" are mentioned in my VIN list.
 

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Just out of curiosity, why is this important? Mine has stop start, so I'll be interested in the reply.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Would you not like to know how your car works? I do!
My car has a Start/Stop system and I would like to know exactly which system is installed in my car.
As i showed, the VIN list is misleading as it states BOTH starters!
For an example, if the engine starts with the standard starter motor on the flywheel, i would rather not use the system at all as it might break sooner than expected.
 

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I don't know aboit the rest but I WANT THE S&S OPTION.
I spend too much time in traffic jam here in brussels that it would be very usefull
 

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There was an articile linked to in the topic above I don't know if you read it but here is an extract

"But there's another, even more advanced version of engine stop-start that you'll find in Peugeot and Citroen cars. The two French companies share parts and use the same system, which makes use of a so-called 'reversible' alternator and capacitors to store reclaimed energy.

The system was introduced to Peugeots by the first generation 308. The alternator can reverse its polarity, switching its function to become a generator and reclaiming energy that would otherwise be lost.

It stuffs the capacitors full of electricity that the alternator then piles back into the engine and restarts combustion in just 400 milliseconds. Once the engine is warm, the alternator takes care of all restarting duties."

Therefore if you have start/stop you will have the above system which doesn't use the starter motor to restart the engine.
 
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Exactly as JohnC says. If you start the car from scratch i.e via the ignition it uses the conventional starter via the flywheel. If the car stops in Eco Mode i.e. Stop/Start it uses the alternator as explained in his post.

Also note that the Stop/Start doesn't always activate if you are using a lot of electrics i.e. A/C, Lights, Radio etc.

I hope this is what your original question meant, sorry if not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So if you are right, i have TWO starter motors?! One is conventional and the other is a reversed alternator?
Well that is weird in a car that its designers have seeked every way to save on weight.
Looking at the gearbox i found no starter motor. On the front i saw the slave cluch pump and on the rear i saw the cable mechanism. Unless Citroen uses a new design that i do not know of, i saw no starter motor there.
If someone could show us pictures or scheme of our engine and gearbox we could sort it out.
 
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I may be completely wrong but I remember reading somewhere that the Stop/Start doesn't use any form of starter motor. The engine stops in ignition mode and the power from the alternator restarts it, that is why you cannot find a second starter motor. I think it works something like that but I am ready to be shot down in flames. :oops:
 

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you have only one starter motor which is used only to start the engine initially you also only have one alternator that stores a charge in capacitors and changes into a generator to "start" the engine again when in stop/start mode.
 

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JohnC said:
you have only one starter motor which is used only to start the engine initially you also only have one alternator that stores a charge in capacitors and changes into a generator to "start" the engine again when in stop/start mode.
Thats how I understand it, also the crankshaft stops just at the right position so when it starts up again there's power already there (from the alternator) to fire it up. All synced to fuel aswell, amazing stuff these new car electrics. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
According to Fuse layout in the handbook, fuse F21 is assigned for "starter motor".
I enclose a picture of my fusebox, location F21 is empty!!!
So as I guessed, there is NO need for a starter motor in the new [email protected] system. The alternator does it all.
Actually, pay attention to sound of startup, it is the same from cold and in a S&S cycle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I Spoke with a Service Manager at the central garage of PSA importet to Israel. He affirmed that in a new s&s configuration there is no starter motor. The alternator does it all!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
No! The alternator is functioning as a starter motor at initial starting. Look at your engine bay fuse box. There is no fuse at location F21!
 

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I have to confess to being confused by this (though not that bothered as long as it all works!)

An alternator is a device for converting mechanical energy into electrical energy, a generator is much the same thing the difference being that in a alternator a magnet spins inside a winding whereas in a generator a winding spins inside a magnet.

An alternator could be converted into a motor consuming electrical energy to provide mechanical energy.

So I could see that we have a combined alternator / starter motor with the power needed to run it as a starter motor in start stop mode provided from capacitors to prevent undue wear on the battery.

Will be in a Citroen dealership on Saturday, will try to find someone who can explain.
 
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