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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Quick update: had it in to the first garage and they couldn't find anything wrong, but admitted that their citroen technician wasn't maybe as experienced as required to diagnose. The fault kept occurring so I put it in to another garage with a citroen "master tech", they decided it was related to spark plugs and/or a software TSB and should now be fixed.

I got 15 mins drive away and it shuddered massively, engine warning lights came on and the car limped to a stop. I'm currently stranded in a lay by on an A road waiting for the garage to come pick me up, though I would use this time industriously! I'll update the saga when I know more...
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Got picked up and given a courtesy car, good service from Arnold Clark. The fault code coming out of the system was P1339 94 (from memory), which was an engine misfire which can affect the catalytic converter apparently. According to the tech the car switched in to a safety mode when it happened, after a little while he was able to drive it away again, we shall see what comes back.

In the meantime I'll be winging around in a grey C3, which is alright actually.
 

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curriemaster said:
Got picked up and given a courtesy car, good service from Arnold Clark. The fault code coming out of the system was P1339 94 (from memory), which was an engine misfire which can affect the catalytic converter apparently. According to the tech the car switched in to a safety mode when it happened, after a little while he was able to drive it away again, we shall see what comes back.

In the meantime I'll be winging around in a grey C3, which is alright actually.
I'm curious to know if the engine appeared to be running ok when the tech drove the car away after its rest.
And btw, roughly what mileage has the car covered?
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
It looked like it pulled away from the lay by without a problem, so perhaps it recovered after a few minutes. Certainly when I pulled over it was not able to power itself very effectively.

It's done 26k miles now and had a service and change of spark plugs earlier today.
 

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I've had a very similar sounding problem that I've noticed only in the last few weeks. I have a 1.2 petrol 110. My usual commute is within 20-30-40 zones so I don't usually notice the issue however whenever I take it onto dual carriage way or motorway especially when pulling on from slip road or attempting 40-60/70 mph it hits the same limit that others have described. Feels like the turbo gives up after too long at full boost? I'm not especially technically minded but that is what it feels like. If it continues to happen I shall be taking it to the dealership for a check up. 2016 reg with 20k miles, last serviced just before I bought in April 2017
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Hi Thom, that does sound like it could be the same issue unfortunately.

I just spoke with the garage and they said it appears to be fixed based on consultation with Citroen in France and road tests they have been doing, Im going to pick it up on Monday. They weren't too specific about what they had done to it (drained and replaced the fuel seemed to be the reason - although that makes little sense to me), so hopefully I will find out more on Monday and report back.
 

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curriemaster said:
They weren't too specific about what they had done to it (drained and replaced the fuel seemed to be the reason - although that makes little sense to me), so hopefully I will find out more on Monday and report back.
From what I understand, modern petrol contains a certain amount of ethanol (deliberately added) - apparently in the UK the amount is currently limited to 10%.
Also, I understand that ethanol readily absorbs water from the atmosphere, more so than petroleum .
So it is possible that those occasions of misfiring are associated with the water content in the fuel currently in the tank.

So maybe this was the idea behind the garage draining and replacing your fuel...
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Hi all,

The garage gave me the car back after replacing the fuel, thanks Davew for the suggestion as to why that was a solution. Unfortunately the car is still shuddering as the wife reported it the day after pickup. I just dropped it off at the garage again today and they are keeping it for a week with the technician using it to commute from home to work to try and learn how to replicate the fault most effectively. Im hoping that it will be solved this time, but there is no clear

As an aside I got a new C3 with airbumps and Android Auto as a courtesy car in the meantime, seems pretty nice.

I'll let you know if/when I get more info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I picked up my car again today with no work done to it.

They cant get the shuddering fault to repeat during test drives and therefore have no recommendations for diagnosis and therefore can't proceed with repair under warranty. I phoned Citroen customer care and the initial phone conversation seemed very helpful, they phoned back yesterday just with the advice "if it happens again give us a call". Of course, it will certainly happen again as nothing was done to the car to remedy the fault. This is very frustrating.

My plan now is to try some self-diagnosis: I have bought a bluetooth ODB2 dongle that I will use in conjunction with the Torque app on my phone to try and capture the engine state during a fault. It seems like there is a pretty large amount of data that can be read out during driving, including RPM, air pressures and temperatures, coolant pressures and temperatures, turbo pressure (maybe - seems like that might be only for VW group cars), etc. It looks like you can also record the data using Torque so I guess Ill have to spend a day getting that all together and then going out on a ripping drive to make it happen.

Dongle arrives tomorrow so perhaps even this weekend I could have something to show Citroen. Wish me luck...
 

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Sounds very frustrating Curriemaster. I haven't done anything about mine yet as I never notice it on my commute however I will be contacting Citroen to see what they can do as it is certainly an issue when I want to pull onto a motorway. I'll let you know if I get any different/more useful responses!
 

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I have been experiencing what sounds like the same problem intermittently for the last 2-3 months (maybe longer) I reported it to my local Citroen who booked it in to check it out, but said it might be worth filling up with a high octane fuel to 'clear through' any possible contaminate before then going back to regular unleaded. I tried this and it seemed to cure the problem. I cancelled the inspection, but then a few days later the issue arose again. I've just had my 2 year service and asked the dealer to have a look and see if they could source the problem.

Believe it or not they seem to have solved it. And I'm not saying that this is the cause of all the cases reported here, but thought it might help someone. I have an insurance black box tracker and had fitted myself as instructed. It has to be connected to the battery and then to an earth point on the car. The cables were very short and so I connected the earth to what I thought was a suitable point. Turns out I'd connected the earth to the top of the turbo ECU and the Citroen dealer thinks that was possible causing the problem. They have re routed the tracker to a proper earth point and so far in the space of a week it hasn't misfired once, where the week before the service it must have done it a dozen times.

Be interested to know if this could be the cause for anyone else?
 

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erbert said:
.... They have re routed the tracker to a proper earth point and so far in the space of a week it hasn't misfired once, where the week before the service it must have done it a dozen times.
A relevant possibility for vehicles troubled by misfiring but without blackbox trackers etc - imperfect grounding/ earthing of sensors such as oxygen sensor and anti-knock sensor could give false alarms to the ECU with consequential effect on engine running.

Will be interesting to hear the longer term outcome.
 

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Same problem here in the UK on a dual carriageway on the way home from work in my petrol 110. Called out the AA (apparently fully covered as the car is under a year old). He ran the diagnostics which said the issue was with the fuel delivery. He followed me as the car limped on the way home. The turbo is not working and there is no real power and not safe to drive. We have only had the car 2 weeks so very disappointed.
 

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Just got my Cactus back and it was a faulty high pressure fuel pump that caused the shuddering/loss of power. They seemed to be very confident that it was the cause. New one fitted and all working fine now. It might be me but the engine seems much quieter when idling now and the turbo seems to give me the extra boost rather than 'jolting' on. Fingers crossed it lasts a bit longer this time.
 

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Danno said:
Just got my Cactus back and it was a faulty high pressure fuel pump that caused the shuddering/loss of power. They seemed to be very confident that it was the cause. New one fitted and all working fine now. It might be me but the engine seems much quieter when idling now and the turbo seems to give me the extra boost rather than 'jolting' on. Fingers crossed it lasts a bit longer this time.
Thanks for this information - please let us know if there's any recurrence of the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Hello all,

I havent had a chance yet to try and record the fault yet with my OBD dongle, but I do have an update. I had my car in for an MOT yesterday and the engine management light came on while they were conducting the check. They carried out a fault code interrogation and found a number of fault codes present (I was told there weren't any at the dealership):
  • Inter system can: one of the parameteres present in a data stream sent by the abs/esp ecu is invalid
  • Vehicle speed info fault
  • Fault in communication with abs/esp ecu
  • A number of instances of engine starts and/or restarts

Apparently they tried to clear these codes but they still returned. Im trying to get in touch with the dealership now but not having much luck: there are 4 days left on my warranty so its turning in to a bit of a bum clencher!
 

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curriemaster said:
Hello all,

I havent had a chance yet to try and record the fault yet with my OBD dongle, but I do have an update. I had my car in for an MOT yesterday and the engine management light came on while they were conducting the check. They carried out a fault code interrogation and found a number of fault codes present (I was told there weren't any at the dealership):
  • Inter system can: one of the parameteres present in a data stream sent by the abs/esp ecu is invalid
  • Vehicle speed info fault
  • Fault in communication with abs/esp ecu
  • A number of instances of engine starts and/or restarts

Apparently they tried to clear these codes but they still returned. Im trying to get in touch with the dealership now but not having much luck: there are 4 days left on my warranty so its turning in to a bit of a bum clencher!
Hmm time running out a bit...

My understanding of the principles of abs/esp is that some manufacturers use the sensor information to reduce engine power when wheel spin occurs - so an error signal from the sensor could be the cause of your particular issue (in addition to many other possible causes...)
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Hello all,

Well the shuddering event happened again, twice in the same journey. It hasnt happened for a couple of months and I was cautiously optimistic that maybe changing the spark plugs and updating the ECU had actually solved the issue. I havent been driving it on many long journeys though, so perhaps it never got a chance to fault.

The additional worry is that the car seems less "peppy" than it used to: the turbo boost seems to kick in at higher RPMs and not with the same vigour. Still no warning lights or anything coming on.

As you know my warranty expired in November before there were any resolutions, so now I feel as if I have been left out to dry a little bit. Im feeling pretty disappointed about the whole situation and to be honest at this stage I just want to get rid of the car and never buy a Citroen again. I am considering taking the car to a local garage that specialises in performance tuning to try and give them the problem in exchange for a few hundred quid, but I also think that could be throwing money at a lost cause.

I suspect that there will never be a resolution for this, which might be very frustrating for the forum goer that reads through this thread to end up with no answers! If I find out anything new, somehow, I will make sure to post it back here.

All the best.
 
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