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New model gear ratios

12K views 10 replies 3 participants last post by  hellooo 
#1 ·
Hi,
I have just ordered a new 110 Flair with the 6 speed manual box, due to arrive next month. Despite having searched through various websites, I can't find the gear ratios or mph/1000rpm figures for this gearbox and engine combination. Automobilecatalog has the 110 as available with a 5 speed manual or 6 speed auto, which pull around 27.5 and 30mph/1000rpm in top respectively. In the absence of a rev counter and presence of a very smooth engine, it would be useful to have these figures in all gears, for running in purposes. Does anybody know whether the 110 and 130 versions have identical gear ratios? The latter is listed on Automobilecatalog with around 32mph/1000rpm showing in 6th which should make for relaxed cruising.
Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
Hi all,
Think I have answered my own question with this. The new car arrived this week and I noticed that 6th isn't required until around 60mph. Gears 1 to 5 of both 110 and 130ps versions on automobilecatalog.com are identical, so I suspect that the 6th for the new 110ps is exactly the same too.

1,000 2,000 3,000 4,000 5,500 6,200
1 5.3 11 16 21 29 33
2 9.8 20 29 39 54 61
3 15.7 31 47 63 86 97
4 22.2 44 67 89 122
5 27.7 55 83 111
6 32.1 64 96

Hopefully it will help with running in. The engine is so quiet, as others have noted, that engine speed can be difficult to work out from sound alone.
 
#4 ·
hellooo said:
Hi all,
Think I have answered my own question with this. The new car arrived this week and I noticed that 6th isn't required until around 60mph. Gears 1 to 5 of both 110 and 130ps versions on automobilecatalog.com are identical, so I suspect that the 6th for the new 110ps is exactly the same too.

1,000 2,000 3,000 4,000 5,500 6,200
1 5.3 11 16 21 29 33
2 9.8 20 29 39 54 61
3 15.7 31 47 63 86 97
4 22.2 44 67 89 122
5 27.7 55 83 111
6 32.1 64 96

Hopefully it will help with running in. The engine is so quiet, as others have noted, that engine speed can be difficult to work out from sound alone.
Not too surprisingly, the ratios for gears 1-5 correspond exactly with the ratios for the older 110 model, as given in this posting https://www.cactusforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=921&p=7103#p7103
 
#5 ·
Thanks, I wondered whether the gearing might have been changed to suit lower power and torque, but obviously not.
First impressions are good. Can't believe how quiet and soft it is compared to VAG cars we've had before. The touch screen will take some getting used to and I'll wait until the car is run in before testing properly. It seems quick enough without trying though!
 
#6 ·
hellooo said:
Thanks, I wondered whether the gearing might have been changed to suit lower power and torque, but obviously not.
First impressions are good. Can't believe how quiet and soft it is compared to VAG cars we've had before. The touch screen will take some getting used to and I'll wait until the car is run in before testing properly. It seems quick enough without trying though!
By taking the characteristic of engine torque vs engine speed (as provided at the site you used for gear ratios) and combining with the overall gear ratios, its possible to plot the available torque at the driving wheels vs the road speed, for each gear.

This indicates that if you are looking for the maximum available road wheel torque through the gears (eg for maximum acceleration), then up to about 100mph just use gears 1-3, shifting into the next gear at about 6200 rpm.
ie for gear shift 1 to 2 change at 33mph, and for gearshift 2 to 3 change at 61mph.

Of course, you'll have to wait for the engine to bed in before testing this hypothesis!
 
#7 ·
Now run in, and after a long motorway run, I was able to open up the 6 speed 110 where conditions allowed. Results were surprising. The limiter intervened at 32, 53 and 83 in gears 1 to 3. Other sites give the engine's limit as 6,400. This being the case, gearing is likely to match figures for the 6 speed auto given on automobilecatalog, peaking at 30/1000rpm in 6th. Without published gear and final drive ratios, there isn't much I can do to prove it. In other news, still like the relaxed ride and fact that I've only seen 1 like it.
 
#8 ·
hellooo said:
Now run in, and after a long motorway run, I was able to open up the 6 speed 110 where conditions allowed. Results were surprising. The limiter intervened at 32, 53 and 83 in gears 1 to 3. Other sites give the engine's limit as 6,400. This being the case, gearing is likely to match figures for the 6 speed auto given on automobilecatalog, peaking at 30/1000rpm in 6th. Without published gear and final drive ratios, there isn't much I can do to prove it. In other news, still like the relaxed ride and fact that I've only seen 1 like it.
Have to say I have had reservations about the authenticity of the technical information at the Automobilecatalog web site and your observations rather confirm that.

Good to know you're enjoying the drive.

BTW have you any comments about the ride over road bumps etc?
 
#9 ·
I agree, the site isn't accurate. The ride is above average. I haven't had issues with noise from the suspension. Seats, more than suspension, improve ride comfort. I am still aware of poor surfacing but the effect seems insulated. The car tracks straight on a motorway run, but seems affected more by side winds due to lack of weight probably.
 
#10 ·
Picking this up again. Citroen was unable to help, so I have trawled various websites and factored in experience of the car and speedometer inaccuracy. The nearest set of ratios that I can get from a PSA car on automobile catalog, is a 2019 Pug 208 110 auto. The site isn't accurate, but the first 3 gears match my 'road test' with gears 4-6 feeling about right. Using this logic, mph/1000rpm figures for my 2019 my 110 6 speed manual are; 1 4.9, 2 8.3, 3 12.7, 4 17.1, 5 23.2, 6 29.5.
 
#11 ·
Hi all,
I bought an OBD reader so, finally, have a more accurate answer to my original question about gear ratios. My 2019 model year 110ps 6 speed manual is geared as follows. The 'dashboard' on my phone app shows RPM as both a dial and actual figures. I put my other phone onto voice record and shouted out speed vs RPM for each gear on a couple of attempts for each gear. Tyre wear is minimal and the rev limiter in my car is soft, operating at between 6,150 and 6,230 on a warm engine.

Gear MPH/1000RPM
1 4.84
2 8.46
3 13.13
4 17.50
5 22.34
6 27.80

This supports my recent observation that 1st and 2nd feel a bit frenetic when joining a fast moving motorway junction roundabout. Gears have obviously been placed closer together than the 5 speed box without changing the top gear ratio much. My previous car from a different manufacturer had a 5 speed box, and the gaps between ratios were noticeable, particularly between 2nd and 3rd at around 25mph.
The Cactus speedometer seems to over-read by a couple of MPH. A GPS displayed 30 shows 32 on the speedometer.
Still very happy with the car and am pleased to have satisfied my anorak self by establishing actual mph/1000rpm figures.
 
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